Mon May 19, 2003 10:02 PM ET By Pablo Bachelet

WASHINGTON (<a href=reuters.com>Reuters) - A United States-backed statement condemning human rights violations in Cuba was withdrawn Monday at the Organization of American States after failing to garner enough support from its members.

Canada, Chile and Uruguay, the countries that introduced the statement, opted against forcing a potentially divisive vote at an institution with a strong tradition of reaching decisions by consensus.

Instead, they took the unprecedented step of re-submitting the text, which expressed "deep concern about the sharp deterioration of the human rights situation in Cuba," as a non-binding statement to the group's Permanent Council.

Sixteen of the OAS's 34 members signed on to the revised statement, reflecting how sharply divided the OAS is on the Cuban issue.

The three-hour debate culminated an effort by the United States and other nations to pass some kind of condemnation of President Fidel Castro's communist island, even though the OAS has been historically reluctant to take on the issue after Cuba was ejected from the Permanent Council in 1962.

The OAS effort began after Cuban authorities sentenced 75 dissidents to long prison terms and executed three men for hijacking a ferry in a failed bid to reach the United States.

An earlier April 23 effort by the United States, Nicaragua and Costa Rica to present a stronger resolution that would have carried more legal weight than a simple statement, also failed to obtain enough support.

On April 28, Secretary of State Colin Powell had urged OAS members to "live up to the ideals we share and take a principled stand for freedom, democracy and human rights in Cuba."

Brazil and Venezuela led the opposition against the statement, arguing that Cuba was not a Permanent Council member and therefore could not defend itself.

The Venezuelan ambassador Jorge Valero warned that the statement would "heighten differences and tensions that exist in the hemisphere" and urged the OAS to debate Cuba in an "integral way" by including a discussion on the U.S. economic embargo against the island.

The Salt lake Tribune

    Puerto Rico: The old U.S. Navy checkpoint on Vieques, for decades a symbol of bombing and repression, lay in pieces Thursday, slumped over like a grand piano on two legs. "Navy Down" was scrawled on it in blue, and a makeshift doll lay nearby in military police clothes, with a beauty-pageant style sash that said "Goodbye!" Many stopped to pose for pictures. For some, it was about recording history. For others, it was about redeeming those long gone. "I was wondering what my father would feel at this moment," said a misty-eyed Carlos "El Prieto" Ventura, an anti-Navy activist leader who took after his fisherman father. "I think he would be happy."         Colombia: Colombia's constitutional court has knocked down the nation's 8-month-old "state of emergency," a surprise political setback to President Alvaro Uribe's quest to gain an upper hand in the war against guerrillas. The court said Uribe illegally extended the state of emergency that lifted some civil liberties as part of his intensified campaign to counter rampant violence, kidnappings and terrorism. He made a mockery of congressional controls by having the legislature approve a 90-day extension two months before it was set to expire, the court said.         Venezuela: Uruguay said Wednesday it had granted asylum to two former Venezuelan military officers accused of participating in a coup against President Hugo Chavez last year. Both entered the Uruguayan Embassy in Caracas early Wednesday, claiming they were being "persecuted and don't trust the judicial system," said retired Navy Adm. Oscar Betancourt. Army Capts. Carlos Blondell and Otto Gebauer were granted asylum, Uruguay's foreign ministry said in a statement.         Brazil: Brazil's leftist president promoted his idea of regional economic integration in talks with his Bolivian counterpart -- the latest in a string of summit meetings reflecting Brazil's growing influence. "Latin American integration will no longer be a sentimental" notion, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva stressed after he and Bolivian leader Gonzalo Sanchez de Lozada agreed last week to boost trade between the neighboring nations. The leaders of Colombia, Peru and Venezuela have visited in the past month, and the presidents of Uruguay and Ecuador will come later this month. The activity represents a move toward a united South America planning to negotiate hard over a proposed Americas free-trade zone.    -----     Roger Morton has reported from Argentina, Brazil, Canada and Mexico. rmorton@sltrib.com

By Sharon Behn THE WASHINGTON TIMES

     President Bush's pick for assistant secretary of state for Western Hemisphere affairs, Roger Noriega, yesterday called for greater international pressure on Cuba's communist government and help for the wounded dissident movement battling President Fidel Castro.

     "We must redouble our bilateral and multilateral efforts to hasten the inevitable democratic transition on the island," Mr. Noriega told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee during his confirmation hearing.

     Mr. Noriega said Mr. Castro's recent crackdown on dissidents and journalists proved that his regime feels threatened by internal opposition groups and "their expanding network of international support."

     "The inter-American community should do more than wish for Cuba's freedom, we should work together like never before to make it a reality," he said in his testimony, in which he called for "more countries around the world to interact with dissidents — those who are not in jail."

     Mr. Noriega also emphasized the need for regionwide and multilateral solutions to the civil and political unrest in Venezuela, the instability in Haiti, guerrilla war in Colombia, trade in Central America and the fight against the illegal drug trade.

     "At a time when our nation is concerned with homeland defense, it is imperative that we pay attention to stability and security close to home," he said.

     That objective, according to Mr. Noriega, would best be served by helping the region achieve sustained economic growth through trade, investment and sound fiscal reforms.

     "I see my role as less diplomat, but more as a managerial role," he said.

     Emphasizing the importance of the region as a trade bloc embracing 800 million consumers, Mr. Noriega said he would defend the free-trade agreement recently concluded with Chile, despite Chile's opposition to the war in Iraq, and would focus on similar bilateral pacts if the Free Trade Area of the Americas plan fell apart.

     "The issue to decide in upcoming months is whether it is better to continue a hemispheric approach or go at it in a subregional way," he told the committee.

      Mr. Noriega, the grandson of Mexicans who immigrated 80 years ago to the United States, said he would also try to chip away at the difficult immigration issues between Mexico and the United States.

     "We have to find ways to make small steps, perhaps, in this agenda," he told the panel.

     Sen. Sam Brownback, Kansas Republican, praised Mr. Noriega for his "indestructible Americanism," but Sen. Christopher J. Dodd questioned his ability to handle the job.

     "It's going to take leadership here," said Mr. Dodd, Connecticut Democrat. "There's not a whole lot in your background that indicates you've managed people or a budget like this."

guardian.co.uk Tuesday April 29, 2003 8:29 AM

BRASILIA, Brazil (AP) - Pushing regional economic integration, Brazil's president met with his Bolivian counterpart in the latest summit highlighting the growing influence of South America's largest country.

Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva said Monday that he and Bolivian leader Gonzalo Sanchez de Lozada agreed to improve roads and bridges to boost trade between the neighboring nations.

Silva, who has met with the presidents of Colombia, Peru and Venezuela in the past month, will get visits in May from the leaders Uruguay and Ecuador in the Brazilian capital.

Experts say the flurry of activity is a message to the United States: A united South America will negotiate hard over terms of a proposed Free Trade Area of the Americas trade zone.

The United States and Brazil will spearhead the negotiations to create the 34-nation bloc stretching from Alaska to the southern tip of Argentina.

Brazil and other South American countries have repeatedly said that FTAA negotiations won't go far unless the U.S. makes commitments to reduce tariff barriers on agricultural products such as orange juice and sugar.

Silva, a former union leader known for his negotiating skills with multinational firms, wants by December to merge two current Latin trading blocs - Mercosur and the Andean Community.

Mercosur is made up of Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay and Uruguay as members. Bolivia and Chile are associate members. The Andean grouping is made up of Venezuela, Colombia, Ecuador, Peru and Bolivia.

``If he (Silva) assembles the Andean nations and Mercosur into one trading bloc, Brazil and its neighbors certainly will have better bargaining power,'' said David Fleischer, a political science professor at the University of Brasilia.

Despite his status as Brazil's first leftist leader and a friendship with Cuban leader Fidel Castro, Silva has made efforts to show he is willing to work with Washington.

He met last week with Treasury Secretary John Snow, who praised members of Silva's fiscally moderate financial team for dealing with the country's economic problems.

Many investors feared Silva would enact unorthodox economic policies that could lead Brazil to default on its massive foreign debt like its southern neighbor, Argentina. Since Silva's Jan. 1 inauguration, those concerns have evaporated.

The presidential meetings between Silva and other South American leaders also appear designed to give Brazil a higher profile on the international front. Silva said over the weekend that the United Nations should be reformed.

He said the Security Council should be expanded beyond the current five permanent members - United States, the United Kingdom, France, Russia and China.

The visits to Brazil also show that Silva, the country's first elected leftist president, has a more aggressive approach on international relations than his predecessors.

Traditionally Brazil has been timid in conducting foreign affairs, but Silva has given a great emphasis to Latin America'' since taking office, Fleischer said.

sf.indymedia.org

San Francisco Bay Area Independent Media Center by John Kaminski Monday April 28, 2003 at 07:01 AM skylax@comcast.net

Opposed by everyone in the world who was not bought off, the illegal invasion of Iraq was undertaken for many reasons - the imminent replacement of the dollar by the euro as the world's primary currency, the tempting lure of untapped oil reserves, the desire to consolidate U.S./Israeli military hegemony over a strategically vital region - but the most important reason was to further obscure questions about the awesome deception staged by the American government that has come to be known as 9/11.

      9/11 was a hoax. This is no longer a wild conspiracy assertion; it is a fact, supported by thousands of other verifiable facts, foremost of which are:       - The attacks of 9/11 COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED without the willful failure of the American defense system. In Washington, Air Force pilots demanded to fly but were ordered to stand down.       Yet instead of prosecuting the president and military leaders for this unprecedented dereliction of duty, military leaders were promoted and the president was praised for presiding over a defense system that suspiciously failed the most crucial test in its history.       None of the deaths would have happened without the deliberate unplugging of America's air defenses.       Planes that lose contact with control towers are usually intercepted by fighter jets inside of ten minutes, as the incident with the golfer's plane a few months earlier so clearly demonstrated.       Yet on 9/11, the jetliners that struck New York were allowed to proceed unmolested for more than a half-hour, and the plane that supposedly crashed in Washington was not intercepted for more than an hour and forty minutes after it was widely known that four planes had been hijacked.       - The twin towers could not have collapsed as a result of burning jet fuel. Most of that fuel was consumed on impact. In the south tower, most of the fuel was spilled outside the building. Heat caused by burning jet fuel does not reach temperatures needed to melt steel.       What does stand out as particularly suspicious and still unexplained is that fires raged out of control beneath THREE of the collapsed towers for ONE HUNDRED DAYS, clearly indicating the presence of some kind of substance utilized in the demolition of the structures.       The Twin Towers did not fall because of plane impacts or fires. Most likely explosives were placed on structural supports in the towers (as was done in Oklahoma City), and these controlled implosions snuffed out the lives of three thousand people.       - FBI Director Robert Mueller insisted officials had no idea this kind of attack could happen when in fact the FBI had been investigating the possibility of EXACTLY this kind of attack for almost TEN YEARS.       Numerous previous attempts at using planes as weapons, intimate knowledge of terror plans called Project Bojinka, and knowledge of suspicious characters attending flight schools who were being monitored by the FBI make his utterance a clear lie on its face.       In the weeks before 9/11, the U.S. received warnings from all over the world that an event just like this was about to happen, but FBI investigations into suspected terrorists were suppressed and those warnings were deliberately disregarded.       - The names of the alleged hijackers, all ostensibly Muslims, were released to the public only hours after the attacks, despite Mueller saying we had no knowledge this would happen. This is an impossible twist of logic. If he didn't know of a plan to strike buildings with planes, how would he know the names of the hijackers?       Various artifacts were discovered in strategic places to try to confirm the government's story, but these have all been dismissed as suspicious planting of evidence. Since that time several names on that list have turned up alive and well, living in Arab countries.       Yet no attempt has ever been made to update the list. And why were none of these names on the airlines' passenger lists?       - Much like the invasion of Iraq, the anthrax attacks were designed to deflect attention from unanswered 9/11 questions in the patriotic pandemonium that followed the tragedy.       In addition to making large amounts of money for the president's father and his friends from the hasty sale of inefficient drugs to a panicked populace, the investigation into these killings was abruptly halted when the trail of evidence led straight to the government's door, and has not been reopened.       The anthrax attacks also amped up the climate of fear and deflected attention from the passage of the government's repressive Patriot Act.       - The Patriot Act was presented in the days after the tragedy supposedly as a response to it, yet it was clear that this heinous act, drafted to nullify provisions for freedom in the U.S. Constitution, was put together long before 9/11. In addition, testimony by Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) revealed that most members of Congress were compelled to vote for the bill without even reading it.       This was a vote to eliminate the Constitutional Bill of Rights, which has defined American freedom for 200 years, and it was accomplished when legislators voted for the bill without even reading it.       - The invasion of Afghanistan was presented as an attempt to pursue the alleged perpetrators of 9/11, yet it had been discussed for years prior to the tragedy and actually planned in the months before the attacks on New York and Washington.       Statements by Zbigniew Brzezinski and the Republican-written Project for a New American Century have stressed that America needed a formidable enemy to accomplish its aggressive geopolitical aims.       The supposed enemy we attacked in Afghanistan was a diverse group of men from all over the world who were initially recruited, encouraged and supported by the American CIA.       - The hole in the Pentagon was not made by a jumbo jet. Damage to the building was simply not consistent with the size of the hole nor the absence of debris. At the supposed point of impact, a whole bank of windows remained unbroken and there were no marks on the lawn.       No airplane debris (except what was planted on the lawn) nor remains of passengers were ever found.       - The president has admitted that he continued to read a story to schoolchildren in a Florida school for 30 minutes after being informed that two planes had struck New York and that the nation was under attack. He has never explained this puzzling behavior, nor how he saw the first plane hit.       It was never televised, only recorded by a French crew filming firemen in New York. In that film, the plane in question does not appear to be a passenger airliner.       - The plane in Pennsylvania was shot down and broke apart in midair. No other explanation can account for the wreckage, which was spread over a six-mile area, or the eyewitness accounts that describe debris falling fromthe sky.       - Cellphone calls cannot be made from airliners in flight that are not close to the ground. As research by Professor A. K. Dewdney has shown, the emotional conversations between hijacked passengers and others would not have been possible under conditions that existed at that moment.       These calls were cynical fabrications, exploiting the distraught emotions of those who lost loved ones.       - Radio communications from firefighters on the upper floors of the Trade Center towers clearly indicate that fires were under control and the structure was in no danger of collapsing.       These are merely a few of the deliberately false statements made by U.S. officials about 9/11. They provide crystal clear evidence that our president, his staff, and many legislators should be indicted on charges of treason, obstruction of justice and mass murder.       Above all, these evil men should be removed from their positions of authority before they implement more of their moneymaking murder schemes like the one they are now perpetrating on the innocent people of Iraq.       Otherwise, we face a future of endless war abroad and merciless repression at home.       Consider just a few more of the other unanswered questions from among the thousands of unexplained loose ends that all point to 9/11 being an inside job.       - Who benefited from the suspiciously high numbers of put options purchased prior to September 11 for shares in companies whose stock prices subsequently plummeted, on the supposition that whoever was behind the hijacking was also behind most of the purchases of these put options?       And what was the role of the new executive director of the CIA, Buzzy Krongard, who handled these transactions?       - Why was the debris from the collapsed Twin Towers removed from the site with no forensic examination?       Why was almost all of it sold to scrap merchants and shipped abroad where it would not be available for scientific examination?       - Why does the government refuse to release any transcripts of communications or any records at all relating to signals of any form transmitted by those jets?       - Why did so many people, from San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown to many employees of companies in the World Trade Center who failed to come to work that day, know in advance that something bad was going to happen on Sept. 11, 2001?       - Why do all the major U.S. media continue to act as if none of these questions is legitimate or relevant?       Today, millions of people around the world are protesting the criminal destruction of the nation of Iraq.       But these protests won't change the number of minds necessary to stop America's criminal madmen from continuing with their genocidal aim of enslaving the entire world.       What WILL stop them is spreading the realization that President George W. Bush and his billionaire accomplices in the oil industry perpetrated 9/11 as an excuse to begin the militarization of America for the purpose of world conquest.       History has shown all too clearly the deceived American people WILL support the destruction of faraway countries on phony pretexts of defending so-called freedom.       Thus the needless wars continue. Right now we watch high-tech weapons slaughter the defenseless people of Iraq.       Soon it will be Iran, Syria, Colombia, Venezuela, North Korea, Egypt, Libya, Nigeria, North Korea, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and who knows where else. All these misguided atrocities will be possible because of the hoax known as 9/11.       But the American people will not - and cannot - tolerate leaders who kill our own people merely to invent a pretext - the war on terror - to go around killing anyone they like.       If the American people DO tolerate such an insane strategy, then they clearly do not deserve to survive as a nation or a people.

www.london-daily.co.uk/art/9-11hoax.htm

Mr. by James Covel Monday April 28, 2003 at 08:33 AM covel648@erols.com

This is biggest bunch of unadulterated crap I have seen since the stories about Clinton's Columbian druglord bases in Arkansas. What is this guy smoking?

"...America needed a formidable enemy... by daveman Monday April 28, 2003 at 08:46 AM

...to accomplish its aggressive geopolitical aims."

I suggest that certain fringe groups also needed an enemy, and invented a story to accomplish their idealogical aims.

President by Bud Miller Monday April 28, 2003 at 08:53 AM

Kaminski is detached from reality and should seek professional help.

An ad hominem is not a rebuttal. by debate coach Monday April 28, 2003 at 09:02 AM

See:

www.intrepidsoftware.com

Well, how about this? by Rick C Monday April 28, 2003 at 10:18 AM

Steel doesn't have to melt. Temperatures reached in an ordinary house fire will cause it to sag and lose all structural strength.

But Kaminski is around the bend if he believes this tripe.

More ad hominems, but still no rebuttals. by just wondering Monday April 28, 2003 at 10:20 AM

Why do you suppose that is?

Not surprised by tom Monday April 28, 2003 at 10:22 AM

Why is everyone so surprised, this kind of nonsense has been going on for a while now. This sheer and utter disassociation from reality does not surprise me in the least. But I just have to ask, John Kaminski, are you on drugs?

www.hootinan.com

What A Joke by Lively Monday April 28, 2003 at 10:28 AM

The reason the golfer's plane was intercepted was BECAUSE OF 9/11. Before 9/11 all hijackers landed the plane and asked for money, prisoners etc. Not fly themselves into tall buildings. What a joke.

get a grip by m12edit Monday April 28, 2003 at 10:34 AM

I like his use of "facts"

like the steel one, already commented on...or that fighters intercept things within 10 minutes. Done a lot of flying in private planes. Gone hours without talking to much of anybody, even without a flight plan and VFR. Never been intercepted by a fighter, even when next door the Edwards AFB, or China Lake. What about demonstrating that you have a clue about what happened to that "golfer"...like knowing that it was Payne Stewart, that they had missed a preplanned check in, that the plane had been flying on autopilot in a straight line for quite awhile, etc. How about a demonstration of a complete lack of understanding how and why the 2 towers collapsed based on the unique design features, especially the use of an exoskeleton to hold it up, than upon collapse, would work to hold it closer together. Or that one or two floors collapsing would put weight on each lower floor causing a cascade effect. How about that it was an intelligence lapse...government at its least effectiveness...the right information not getting to the right people in time.

And one last thing. The argument itself is inconsistent. Did we "let" this happen or did we "make" this happen? The author needs to pick one, but uses both suppositions to "prove" his point. And if we "let" this happen, why is there no blame assigned to the perpetrators? It's like saying FDR let Pearl Harbor happen, therefore the Japanese have absolutely no responsibility for attacking it.

Also, btw, it seems for all these Constitutional attacks, your right to free speech is plenty intact.

Insanity by rastajenk Monday April 28, 2003 at 10:43 AM

" If the American people DO tolerate such an insane strategy, then they clearly do not deserve to survive as a nation or a people."

People that desseminate such insane drivel clearly do not deserve a forum with which to display their insanity.

What a load of crap by JES (Virginian) Monday April 28, 2003 at 10:43 AM

As one of the hundreds of eye witnesses to the Jumbo Passanger Jet that flew into the Pentagon, I can say that the this entire article is a gaint piece of CRAP!!!!!!!!

The author must be taking way to many drugs to even think this CRAP up.

Insanity by rastajenk Monday April 28, 2003 at 10:43 AM

" If the American people DO tolerate such an insane strategy, then they clearly do not deserve to survive as a nation or a people."

People that desseminate such insane drivel clearly do not deserve a forum with which to display their insanity.

BS by Rob Monday April 28, 2003 at 10:50 AM leftandright@cox.net

The hole in the Pentagon was not made by a jumbo jet. Damage to the building was simply not consistent with the size of the hole nor the absence of debris. At the supposed point of impact, a whole bank of windows remained unbroken and there were no marks on the lawn.

I guess my good friend, Chris, who was travelling north on I-395 into DC on the morning of September 11, LIED to me when he told me he heard a jetliner fly no more than 100 feet above his van, then saw it crash into the Pentagon?

Hmmm, whom do I believe? A trusted friend? Or some crank at IndyMedia?

Anyone with any knowledge of the different types of FIRE knows that BLACK smoke indicates a fuel fire.

You see WHITE smoke when something that will leave an ASH (such as paper or wood) burns.

There was a lot of BLACK SMOKE coming off the towers before they collapsed.

members.cox.net/leftandright

melting steel, soft heads by humpty dumpty Monday April 28, 2003 at 10:55 AM

That's a good one -- jet fuel does not burn hot enough to melt steel. And everyone knows that a building will remain standing unless its frame is completely liquid.

I urge everyone to vote for this site as best humor site webbie award!

And all the king's horse, and all the weathermen, couldn't put this crackpot conspiracy back together again.

9/11 Was A Hoax by John Kaminski Monday April 28, 2003 at 11:05 AM

John Kaminski must be insane. He complains that there are no rebuttals, just "ad hominem" attacks. Yet a rebuttal against this festering pile of horse shit would lend it a certain legitimacy. So I'll just leave it at that: Kaminski is insane.

???? by rebuttal Monday April 28, 2003 at 11:11 AM

Was the goverment looking the other way on 9/11 or was there a complete failure. You suggest both. Which is it?

If the goverment was looking the other way, why was the plane shot down in Pennsylvania, as you suggest?

ATTN. KKKOBES by KKKOBE IS FINISHED Monday April 28, 2003 at 11:18 AM

YOU ARE DONE.

Cocerned American by Pat Filbert Monday April 28, 2003 at 11:22 AM filbertpm@aol.com

What scares me is that people will believe this stuff. I thought getting an education was important, but not in the author's case.

The author has a complete lack of responsibility in writing this, the editors even more as they printed this.

I recommend the author return to school, or at least start reading and actually checking out what he writes.

Truth is the first casualty of the demoguoge -------------------Question by just wondering Monday April 28, 2003 at 11:22 AM

Did the government let 9/11 happen, or was there a complete failure? You suggest both. Which is it?

If they "let" it happen, why was the plane shot down over Pennsylvania, as you suggest?

Why bother? by V-Man Monday April 28, 2003 at 11:23 AM

Cute conspiracy theory. Too bad none of it stands the barest examination. Not that you can debate it with anyone on the left -- to them, emotions trump cold, hard facts.

I wouldn't worry too much about it, myself. The Left is rapidly going the way of the Communists: reduced to hawking a crummy newsprint magazine on the street corner and wondering why no one pays them any attention.

9/11 Was a hoax? by Barking Pumpkin Monday April 28, 2003 at 11:24 AM

You obviously have your head up your ass to make such a stupid assertion. YOu are beyond hope or redemption. The drugs have obviously damaged what little gray matter you had to begin with.

Debunking the "WTC Was a Controlled Implosion" Myth by Fred JND Monday April 28, 2003 at 11:30 AM ursohigh@joker.net cucumber down the drain

Here is a complete refutation of the "WTC Disaster Was a 'Controlled Implosion' " Myth. Just go directly to the link, I don't have any more time or breath to waste on this rubbish.

www.implosionworld.com

A Resource Based in Reality by Sharona Monday April 28, 2003 at 11:33 AM

Please read William Langewiesche's series of 3 articles from July-August-September 2002 of "The Atlantic Monthly". They will disabuse you of your psychotic notions regarding the collapse of the twin towers. I suspect, however, that you will not, because you will realize the truth, and you are clearly dissociated from fact, reality and veracity. In which case you should see a counselor immediately, as your hatred of President Bush and all things republican is interfearing with your ability to function in the 'here and now'!

YOU KNOW WHO by KKKOBE IS FINISHED Monday April 28, 2003 at 11:37 AM

Wow. Look at all the brownshirts.

And J-E-W-S secretly control the world by Wild Justice Monday April 28, 2003 at 11:44 AM

You're the kind of people who believe the J-E-W-S secretly run the world, aren't ya?

And your proof?

"Well we don't really have any. You see the Jews hide their tracks so well we don't tecnhically have any proof ... which only goes to show how sneaky and secretive they really are."

So the fact that you don't have any proof somehow proves the J-E-W-S secretly control the world? "Well isn't it obvious?" Well lemme tell you something.: THIS IS THE REALITY POLICE SPEAKING. I REPEAT, THIS IS THE REALITY POLICE SPEAKING. WE HAVE THE HOUSE SURROUNDED. PUT YOUR COPY OF MEIN KAMPF DOWN AND STEP AWAY FROM YOUR DELUSIONS.

some questions by just wondering Monday April 28, 2003 at 11:45 AM If this guy is wrong about some things, does that make him wrong about everything? If so, how? If this guy is wrong about everything, does that make the official version (also a conspiracy theory) right? If so, how?

And J-E-W-S secretly control the world by Wild Justice Monday April 28, 2003 at 11:47 AM

You're the kind of people who believe the J-E-W-S secretly run the world, aren't ya?

And your proof?

"Well we don't really have any. You see the Jews hide their tracks so well we don't tecnhically have any proof ... which only goes to show how sneaky and secretive they really are."

So the fact that you don't have any proof somehow proves the J-E-W-S secretly control the world?

"Well isn't it obvious?"

Well lemme tell you something.: THIS IS THE REALITY POLICE SPEAKING. I REPEAT, THIS IS THE REALITY POLICE SPEAKING. WE HAVE THE HOUSE SURROUNDED. PUT YOUR COPY OF MEIN KAMPF DOWN AND STEP AWAY FROM YOUR DELUSIONS.

The fool I pity by MJ Monday April 28, 2003 at 11:48 AM

"- Cellphone calls cannot be made from airliners in flight that are not close to the ground. As research by Professor A. K. Dewdney has shown, the emotional conversations between hijacked passengers and others would not have been possible under conditions that existed at that moment. These calls were cynical fabrications, exploiting the distraught emotions of those who lost loved ones." I flew from Las Vegas to NYC with my cell phone in my pocket. While asleep I accidentally turned on my cell phone and called a friend of mine 3 times (at 3AM- he wasn't happy) while in air. So it's not only possible, I've accidentally done it- just because Professor Dewdney couldn't make a call from a Cessna in Ottowa (!) doesn't mean that applies to a flight in the US. The calls would've had to fake caller ID data, voice recogntion from loved ones, cell phone bills, and would have to have known who the people would've called in an emergency.

Sri by Theodopoulos Pherecydes Monday April 28, 2003 at 11:52 AM Pherecydes@cs.com

Could this be the same John Kaminski who wrote "The Awful Secret" for "paranoia.com"?

Mr. by Theodopoulos Pherecydes Monday April 28, 2003 at 11:59 AM Pherecydes@cs.com

Compare the John Kaminski above with this John Kaminski:

www.paranoiamagazine.com

"Not that you can debate it with anyone on the left " by hay foot, straw foot Monday April 28, 2003 at 12:01 PM

This is a RIGHT wing conspiacy theory. The Left believes it was blowback from Reagan's support of the mujahadin.

Evidence please?!?! by scooter Monday April 28, 2003 at 12:01 PM

This one is too wacky for an in depth rebuttal but I have to point out a couple of this article's obvious fallacies and loony assertions.

1. “The twin towers could not have collapsed as a result of burning jet fuel. Most of that fuel was consumed on impact. In the south tower, most of the fuel was spilled outside the building. Heat caused by burning jet fuel does not reach temperatures needed to melt steel.”

This assertion implies that the only contributing factor to the collapse of the WTC was burning jet fuel. Multiple factors contributed to the collapse of the towers. 2/3 of the perimeter load bearing columns (the primary structural elements in the WTC) in the impact zones of the buildings was severed upon impact. One need not be a structural engineer to empirically understand that the structure of the buildings had been compromised. Fire broke out simultaneously on multiple floors throughout entire floors. The jet fuel ignited flammable materials in the building (i.e. papers, furniture, carpet…) that caused an unprecedented fire unanticipated by life safety systems. Fire suppression systems in buildings are designed to deal with localized fires, not fires that spontaneously erupt through entire floors. One also must keep in mind the difference between heat and temperature. If you burn an oak twig in a fireplace it burns at the same temperature as an oak log. The oak log emits more heat than the oak twig although they are burning at the same temperature. The amount of heat generated by the widespread fires was unquestionably enough to put the structure at risk, independent of the fact that such a large percentage of the perimeter columns were severed. I could go on but there is plenty of information out there about this. Start with www.tms.org for an introduction.

2. “Radio communications from firefighters on the upper floors of the Trade Center towers clearly indicate that fires were under control and the structure was in no danger of collapsing.”

Those fires were nowhere near being under control. I witnessed both towers ablaze from the Brooklyn Bridge and at no point did the fires abate in any way whatsoever. They in fact got worse as time went on. Before the buildings collapsed, one of the fire chiefs informed Mayor Giuliani that he believed that anyone in the impact zones and above could not be saved.

Each one of Mr. Kaminski’s comments / observations have nothing backing them up. Some sources would be nice, but there are no legitimate places to verify such outrageous paranoid assertions. The facts would just get in the way. Get a grip John.

911 Hoax by I R Killer Monday April 28, 2003 at 12:28 PM

World domination by the USA. Hey, I LIKE IT!! Let's break out the nukes and call JFK and Elvis to push the buttons!

sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/04/1604706_comment.php

re: Concerned American by Jbad Monday April 28, 2003 at 12:37 PM

Pat Filbert,

Good question, but you assume that there is some journalistic standard applied to articles published on indymedia. In fact the "editors" are mere moderators, and have very little influence on content. Indymedia has become a joke, a parody of itself. Just look at this thread for a perfect example. Any crackpot with a conspiracy theory and a computer can become a journalist on this site, no credentials or references to relaity are required. What scares me the most is that some people come here and believe the stuff they read. What I find amusing, however, is that the authors on these threads NEVER come back and respond to any of the criticism they receive. Never.

For everyone who believes John... by daveman Monday April 28, 2003 at 12:37 PM

...you're gonna need one of these.

zapatopi.net

Except that one's not made up. by Tim Monday April 28, 2003 at 12:40 PM

...except Clinton's drug-money connection at Mena was pretty well-documented, with plenty of (dead) witnesses...

Golfer? by James Smithson Monday April 28, 2003 at 01:12 PM yahbadabadoo@hotmail.com

Actually the golfer you refered to was Payne Stewart and his plane crashed in October of 1999, not "a few months before" 9/11. If this is any indication of your "facts" in the rest of your drivel, you may already be a moron.

"How the left has fallen..." by how many times do I have to say this? Monday April 28, 2003 at 01:15 PM

This is a RIGHT wing conspiacy theory. The Left believes it was blowback from Reagan's support of the mujahadin.

"People who believe in conspiracy theories" by perhaps you haven't noticed, but Monday April 28, 2003 at 01:35 PM

the official version of what happened on 9/11 is itself a conspiracy theory.

So if all conspiracy theories are bogus, why believe it?

What a moron! by Keith McComb Monday April 28, 2003 at 02:20 PM kinsfire@kinsfire.net

I actually had to wait on writing this to avoid the profanity that came to mind. Which universe did the writer of this piece of tripe come from?!? I saw the same video, and it sure looked like a passenger liner to me! (Mind you, I saw that video on 0-11-01.) Does that moron know anything about architecture? Jet fuel burns hideously hot, and the very design of those towers is what doomed them. (I leave it to the reader to search for the relevant sources for that info.) No airplane remains means no airplanes, right? WRONG! Remember that these planes were moving fast enough to keep them in the air, and accelerated before striking their targets. (A note for the writer of that drivel - the heavier the airplane, the faster the speed necessary to keep it in the air.) I beg that person to leave the safety of their home in whatever sheltered community he lives in and come to NYC. Go down to Chambers Street, and begin preaching that information. He'd better have several well-armed bodyguards, though, because those of us who SAW it happen will probably rip him to shreds. Oh, I forget - I say I saw the planes hit, and say they were passenger liners - I must be part of the Shadow Government conspiracy to take over the U.S.! Effing moron...