VENEZUELA “At whatever cost” Interview with dissident general
<a href=www.lapress.org>LatinAmericaPress.com Wednesday, May 28, 2003 Gen. Néstor González Paolo Moiola. May 22, 2003
The Four Seasons hotel on the Plaza Altamira — in Chacao, the most exclusive district in Caracas — has turned into a kind of headquarters for members of the military who, for over six months now, have declared military disobedience against the government of President Hugo Chávez (LP, Nov. 4, 2002).
They call themselves the "democratic military" and refer to the Plaza Altamira as "liberated territory." Paolo Moiola, a Latinamerica Press correspondent, spoke with one of the dissident commanders, Gen. Néstor González, who has 28 years of active service in the Venezuelan Army under his belt.
Why are you here on the plaza?
This is not something many people understand. I’ve used all of the existing legal methods to make the president respect the Constitution. I’ve made public my opposition to political involvement in the military via all of the official channels — the army, the Ministry of Defense and the President of the Republic. I’ve maintained that to politicize the armed forces will bring about division as well as leadership and operational difficulties.
This followed the events of April 11, 2002, the attempted coup against Chávez (LP, April 22, 2002). I stopped Chávez deploying troops and tanks on the streets to massacre the people demanding his resignation. That was the intention of Chávez, to use the troops to hijack the people and impose a totalitarian communist regime, aided by [Cuban President] Fidel Castro and the international leftist movement.
After this I, together with other democratic officials, reached the conclusion that rights were no longer being respected in our country and we came to the Plaza Altamira to denounce what was happening. That was October 22, 2002. We’re still here because nothing has changed since. There isn’t even a place where we can denounce what’s going on because the state is hostile towards us.
We decided to retire from the army and stay at the plaza to publicly denounce what Chávez is doing to the Venezuelan people. He’s allowed foreign elements into the country to repress the popular revolt. He’s destroyed the institutions and used the widespread misery currently experienced across the country to take forward a leftist project, aiming to destabilize the whole of Latin America and probably world peace as well.
How many members of the military share your position?
There are 135 of us occupying the liberated territory. But not all of us live here. Some go home at night, others have various safe houses for security reasons. There are many generals, discredited or retired, who want to see the back of Chávez.
I assume you are talking about a peaceful exit for the president?
Whatever! When someone sells the country down the river, when they betray the people by imposing an outside regime that has no interest in the greater good, the well-being and peace of the people, freedom must be achieved whatever the cost.
We’ve begun peacefully, but if we have to resort to other methods, we will. We must recuperate the freedom of a nation and a people in suffering. In that sense, the international community has not totally understood our situation.
Why not? Venezuela has received plenty of media coverage.
Simply because the government has manipulated the information. Chávez has spent a lot of money creating an international lobby that publicizes a Constitution that not even he respects. He wants to create an image of himself as a democrat, when in reality he’s a dictator trying to impose a communist and fundamentalist regime.
How much popular support does Chávez have?
We calculate that he has a core support of between 12 and 15 percent. There’s another 15 percent who we call "light Chavistas," many of whom are within the armed forces. Bought and corrupted. Chávez has bought the dignity and conscience of most of the people around him, but when the money runs out they won’t stick around because they don’t identify with him. There is a common misconception that he has the support of the poor neighborhoods. When we collected signatures for an anti-Chávez petition many of the people, who came forward of their own accord, came from those areas.
Where do the armed forces stand?
Anyone who thinks the armed forces are with the president is wrong. Chávez has brought many foreigners to Venezuelan territory: Colombian guerrillas ready to offer armed support and Cubans disguised as sports instructors, but armed all the same. On top of that, he’s armed a part of the population, telling them they are defending the revolution.
Are you talking about the Bolivarian Circles (LP, June 3, 2002)?
Exactly. Chávez organized them because he knows the armed forces are against him, that they have an institutional position, and that one day they will unite the people and capture him.
What do you think of the opposition Democratic Coordinating Group (LP, May 7, 2003)?
One of the tactics employed by Chávez is to divide the opposition, the Democratic Coordinating Group (DCG) included. The DCG has served to create divisions amongst the political opposition through personal, economic and party interests. The DCG members will be cast aside when the people realize that they don’t represent the interests of the Venezuelan on the street.
Chávez scorns any democratic initiative and constantly ridicules all of the political solutions proposed by the people. It’s true that the president enjoys between 25 and 30 percent popular support, but it’s also true that 70 percent of the people are against him, as they regularly make known on the street, not only here in the Plaza Altamira, but throughout Caracas.
This has never happened before, not even with the ex-President Rafael Caldera (1964-74 and 1994-99) who [in his second term] had just 15 percent approval, but the remaining 85 percent of the people were indifferent and took what they got. Everything was kept within a democratic context, without ever creating divisions between rich and poor or blacks and whites, as Chávez is attempting to do now (LP, April 9, 2003).
What does the immediate future hold?
The people must continue coming to the plaza to show the international community that our struggle is just. Peace, liberty and the future of Venezuela mean a lot not just for South America, but also for the West and the rest of the world.
A minority group cannot be allowed to hijack the liberty and justice of a country. We will continue our march forwards, at whatever cost.
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